Wednesday 31 January 2007

Net worth...

This is not so much a blog about football, but it does contain football references. So Gaby will be hooked already and Hazel will be put off already. But you can't please all the people all the time. At least, Chris Evans clearly can't on his blog so why should I expect to?

I heard a Radio Five Live discussion the other night about doctors. It was the old chestnut of GPs salaries having gone up significantly and how a lot of them now earn over £100k a year.

A number of people were complaining about the outrageous level of GPs earnings, specifically in relation to other health service workers. Now if you're a nurse or a paramedic or any other of the thousands of care workers that earn too little, I have every sympathy. I have blogged before about value and worth, I think, about how our society only values celebrity and money, so I hope you will know that I fully agree that we undervalue many in our society that really add value - not only the traditional care workers, but also and especially, the stay at home mums.

So what does it say about our society that we can complain so bitterly about the discrepancy between the lowest paid care workers and the highest paid, while not even blinking about the fact that these highly paid GPs actaully earn the same in a year as some top footballers earn in a week? Now THAT is what I call really obscene and unacceptable.
What does it say to our kids? Go play football instead of studying to become a doctor. You'll be more highly valued.
There was a comment I heard on the radio about some footballer who had been bought for £8million or something and allowed to go on a free transfer. They had worked out a cost of about £360,000 per goal he had scored. And that was without the extortionate wages he'd earned during that time.

"Market economics" I hear many of you cry. The people want the football, are willing to pay huge ticket prices, are fiercely loyal customers, and the players are simply reaping the rewards of that demand. Besides, Burberry wouldn't do much business if it wasn't clothing the footballer's wives and girlfriends and the wannabe fans. There's a massive knock-on business of conspicuous consumption, generating jobs and fuelling growth.
Absolute rubbish, I say. So much money that they cannot know what to do with it all. Gambling, mansions, fast cars driven way too fast, women like Danielle Lloyd attached to their arms. It is all just quite distasteful from where I sit.

I don't know what to do about it. Boycott Sky maybe? We've been there in blog-world already...
Boycott football? Well it's actually a pretty small minority of people who actually go. Did you know that more people attend church on an average weekend than go to a live football match? Now, personally, I do think that we might get somewhere as a society if the people who normally go to football went to church instead, and gave the money they would normally spend on tickets, beer, pies, travelling to away matches (or home matches in the case of Man Utd fans), replica shirts, programmes (need I go on?)...give it all to a worthier cause. Like nurses, or paramedics, or homeless people, or starving street kids in India. Whatever. Anything but give it to this very small group of quite fragile and strange individuals, who happen to be fortunate enough to be able to do funny things with their feet and a bit of leather (or plastic). And have no doubt that most of the money paid for these things basically flows straight into the players pockets.

What real net worth do footballers actually add to society?

I think I shall have to do what Mrs Moose always suggests, and refuse to be associated with something so immoral. At least at the top level. With the way West Ham are going this year, that won't be too hard after the end of this season!

76 comments:

Anonymous said...

I detest football. I do not understand how someone can be worth more than the house I used to live in. You didn't lose me totally Moose, I'm right up there with you.
A very good friend of ours has just completed her nursing exams and is now a staff nurse in the intensive care unit. The NHS considers her well paid on £18000.
A bad day for her is when one or more of her patients has died. It makes me spit that a bad day for someone supposedly worth sixty trillion pounds is a bit miffed because their boot was a bit loose so they missed the goal...

Yes I'm still up...another friends birthday and none of it has been good...all very very wrong...

I look forward to the rest of this tomorrow (today???)

love
hazel
x

Dogwithnobrain said...

Yup.

Professional Football Salaries... if you can call it that... meaningless.

But if you take away the economics of the players salaries and look at the enjoyment it provides millions of spectators, the exercise and competition it generates in our young ones (and some of us older ones too - I can be found most Sundays running up and down the side lines cheering on my son's team for all my worth), it is a national hobby.

Don't not support it, choose to debate the worth of the players salaries, but support the fun.

Anonymous said...

oh my, Moose - yep, am hooked and seriously considering non-attendance of work today in order to partake of forthcoming discussions on here. A superbly written piece Moose.

I think it is an absolute disgrace that they are paid so much money. As long as there is no hooliganism, I do, at times, feel very proud of the support that the teams get from their fans (loved your comment about the Utd fans travel : )), especially when it is a sport that so many young lads start having a go at almost as soon as they can walk (and ladies too). I have two teenage daughters and the pleasure that we get from attending a match together as a family is immeasurable. To be honest, I probably spend money I haven't got on the tickets - but, as I have said before, I live for the day and will worry when I am in trouble. We miss a fourth person in our family. It is hard with just the three of us - hard to make a party or an occasion with just the one adult and two teenagers. Again, am struggling to express myself. Our family is complete because this is what it is now. when we are at the footie the camaraderie and shared interest we have is worth a huge amount to me. That's not to say that the rest of the time things ain't good here - far from it. It's just that football is something that we three share and enjoy together.

My Grandad used to support Hartlepool Utd - back in the seventies I am talking about and he used to watch Match of the Day with the sound off as he used to enjoy it more that way. Those were the days.

I really don't know what the solution is - Murdoch has obviously fuelled the situation. I will ponder at work.

Enjoy today guys.

Hazel - sorry that your evening went the way it did xxxxxx

Gaby

xxxxxxxx

Anonymous said...

I am such a soppy c*w.

when I was talking about the three of us in my last post, I thought of that song from Chitty Chitty BB - when the dad singe 'we three, get along so famously, 'cos, you two have me, and I have you two too' and a tear came into my eye. Can't watch that scene in the film without crying !!!

I guess I was part of a three with my dad and my bruv after my Mum died as well as being in a three now.

I bet you guys are glad I am off to work!!!

loving your work

Gaby

xx

Anonymous said...

am so late - almost not worth bothering to go in??!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Anonymous said...

Moose.

You are so right my friend. Alas, the golden rule of economics always prevails, supply and demand.

All the while 70000 people are prepared to trudge down to Old Trafford and part with £50 each on a Saturday afternoon and mugs like us hand the same amount over to the Murdoch family each month, our heroes and anti-heroes will continue to collect their obscene wages, pass go and collect ten-fold more in endorsements while people who save lives struggle to make ends meet.

Its all wrong.

Mrs MfR earn a reasonable wage, but for doing what? Sure, we serve our companies well and protect their financial interests, but at the end of the day we are paid to sit and play on computers every day. If I don't complete a spreadsheet no-one dies, no-one is gets hurt, in fact, no-one cares.

One day I really hope that I will do something that really makes a difference. Something that many, many underpaid people do every single day and hardly anyone notices.

MfR

Jo said...

Yes - challenge Footballers wages but don't boycott it, football is such a great tool these days for engaging with people, young or old from all cultures and backgrounds. For many it acts as an escape from the day to day life. Stupidly high wages are what we should say no to, and even more so when the footballer has no manners, self control, or is guilty of criminality.

One of the problems is arrogance, these footballers will have been told from the time they were about 9 or 10 that they were the best thing at their school, maybe at county level, then they get picked up by a big club that somehow keeps telling them that they are something special. Unless these kids are deeply grounded and humble (and I bet not many are) they are likely to enter adulthood thinking that they are untouchable, the next big thing and that they should be paid accordingly.

Anyway, that's my opinion of it - a bit much for 9am??

As for the nurse and care worker wages issue - don't get me started. I work for a PCT and have realised that GP's contracts aren't actually monitored that well and in some cases they are being paid incentives to do things that are already in their contracts - no wonder the NHS is going up the spout!

:o) Jo (1 week without smoking - not crabby anymore although you wouldn't think that today?)

PS. Am praying that the Mighty Derby County accept that they'll go up, take the 30 million for being in the premiership and use the money wisely, rather than by trying to stay up.

Dogwithnobrain said...

Hey - Just wanted to add.
Am Scottish.. you may know this. My husband is English... Blackburn Born and Bred, and my son declared his allegiance to England International Squad as soon as he could kick a ball. The amount of abuse he gets for supporting England is abysmal, however the look of sheer joy on his face when he stands and sings the National Anthem infront of the England Squad wipes out any hurt from the abuse. He loves his football he does.

T said...

Moose I am fully with you on this and I can only hope some changes may happen with the new UEFA president who wants to cap salaries. Sorry if I have got the wrong president here, I do follow footie, but only as my other half is a Royals fan, so by default I know am!

I may upset a few here but do prefer a good game of Rugby and am looking forward to the six nations. You may be wondering where this is going, but an old uncle of mine once said, Rugby is a gentlemen’s game, Football is not. I still think this is true today, in Football the players argue with the ref and in some cases there is a tendency of dirty play, in rugby the players respect the ref and his decision is final with no argument. I sometimes wish this would happen in football but it may change the game too much.

For those the missed CLP on comic relief last night, I saw his advert in bbc2 (other channel are available) just before 10. It was good, but in some shots he was looking a pit peaky, but then again I think I would if I had to do several goes on a ride and speak at the same time!

Anyway, best start some work.

T

Caroline – next Wednesday sound great – what is on the menu??

Moose said...

oops...what have I started today?

What do you guys think about the idea that football has largely replaced spirituality/religion in people's lives today. The players are the gods people worship (just look at some of the body language of the fans).
A lot of your comments back this up a bit too...time together as a family, being grounded and humble etc. I'm not having a go at anyone, it's just an observation.

I remember Mrs Moose commenting on the Bayern Munich fans all in tears after the Man Utd Champions League last minute win...about how it is so important to them and that it's quite sad that people should be so unhappy because some overpaid blokes lost a football match. I know, Bill Shankly and all that...

A little trite I know, so apologies for this...but there's a little acronym that Christians sometimes use about the priorities in life. It's JOY. Jesus first, Others second and Yourself last.
Well, as far as I can see it, footballers are MMM people. Me first, Me second, Me third. Or in the words of the togmeister, it's all Me, Me, Me.
Is it me, or is "MMM People" a good name for a band?

I say good on the nurses and doctors. Whether they are low paid or highly paid, there is always an element of putting others ahead of themselves which is admirable.

Good to see CE up and posting so early this morning...I shall have to go and think up something to say!

Anonymous said...

DWNB, glad your wee boy is true to what he believes in! Heart warming stuff babe xx

I can't boycott football. I've never enjoyed it, so have never watched it. I'm from a home where every conceivable sport was always on TV, so sulking in my bedroom because I couldn't watch...? was infinitely preferable...hey, at least I had my music man...The only sports I can cope with watching are ski jumping and bob sleigh. No idea why particularly, but I'm damn sure that if GB (or it's member countries) were any good at these, the competitors would be being paid high salaries and endorsing products too.

The irony is, that if most of the England football team took a bit more time to practise rather than being in glossy ads, they might actually start to win.

Oh, yeah, just thought, in the not too distant past, all wives and girlfriends were LEFT AT HOME because it was bad for the players to have any emotional or (ahem) physical contact before a game. Very few partners ever attended their partners games at Wimbledon either, in case they put the player off.

...and Moose...being famous for being a famous footballers girlfriend...wassat all abart? Of course, Gaby, if it was you, at least you'd be deserving, and not just because you were hanging around the right nightclub in just the right state of undress, and had no idea that the bloke who'd just bought you a fancy cocktail earns seventy twelvety pence a minute...

This, as you may have noticed is a small soap box for me.

I can see the policeman coming now about to ask me to move on...I have no idea if what I have just written makes much sense, it just spills out...

Granville, fetch a cloth
love
hazel
x

perhaps I'll try busking instead...anyone know all the words to Streets of London?

Jo said...

So how can you tell me you're lonely,
And say for you that the sun don't shine?
Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
I'll show you something to make you change your mind

(Sing along if you know the words!)

:o) Jo

Anonymous said...

Love you Jo!

I was just looking at the picture of Hattie(?) and thinking to congratulate you on your week of not smoking!

Ralph McTell...if he had half the Royalties paid to him for the amount of times that song is sung, he'd be a milyonaire by now!

Anonymous said...

sorry, but something else, and I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO DETRACT FROM TODAY'S DISCUSSION, but, is it just me, or is anyone irritated beyond comprehension, by Mika?

Moose said...

Have you seen the old man,
who walks the Streets of London...

Oi, you can't walk there, it's a Health & Safety hazard.

Have you seen the old girl...
Carrying her life in two carrier bags.

Excuse me luv, are those carrier bags bio-degradable? If not, im afraid I'm going to have to confiscate them.

Have you seen the old man,
outside the Seaman's mission...

Ooh eer missus! Can you say that on here?

And I can't believe Ms Lloyd would hang about in night clubs in a state of undress waiting for footballers to buy her fancy cocktails...slanderous Ms Love!
If so, which nightclubs? Should the next OAMC be there? Would they let us in?

Moose said...

T,
I'm with you on Michel Platini...I fear the other bloke was a little too corrupt and a little too old to be able to do the job...allegedly.

But what will the cap be? £50k per week? £100k per week? Still obscene whatever they cap it at...

Our CEO's house was likened to a Footballers Wives house in the paper the other day...he was not happy. We all had a chuckle though...
Do you think he knows Dani Lloyd?

Anonymous said...

hey Moose T (heh heh heh...)

I knew I'd find it somewhere if I looked hard enough!

"Football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans, and rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen."

...and that, ladies and gentlemen, takes me right back to Colin Leaty...oooh dear...

love
puff daddy
x

Moose said...

Thanks sexbomb!!!

Moose said...

ooo, I've finally appeared on the other side.
I am getting seriously bored with the waiting and wondering what's happened. has it gone through? Have the BP stopped it. It's getting beyond a joke.
Or is it that having another outlet (with no BP to speak of and instant gratification) just highlights the issues that were there anyway?

Anyway, nearly lunchtime, and after my post, I am feeling a bit peckish...anyone got any tasty treats they can offer up? I could go a paella - has anyone seen Anna recently?

lyndyloo said...

Hmmmm,

I'm glad my blog is a bit more light hearted, I rarely rant but there are times when I can....

I'm torn- I am an LCFC season ticket holder, I sit in the cheaper seats because I like the people that sit around me and the fact it's easier to get back to my car and out of town after the match. I do think that footy players are overpaid but on the other hand I don't believe that anyone should be told how much/little they can or can't earn.

I have had the opportunity to meet and sell to some sports people and the footballers earn far and away more than the rugby or cricketers. Also the footballers don't actually do a great deal for themselves (occasionally they may have to open their own toilet door) and so they tend to be difficult to deal with, whereas the rugby/cricket boys are a bit more used to having to dress themselves and feed their families. But should we sit here from our chairs and say it is they who are wrong? Surely if we had been given the same opportunities to earn huge sums of money for a talent that we have then we would take it? I, for one, would do.

If we have people that are paid too much money in this country for doing/contributing little to the happiness and well being of the rest of us then I don't think it's the sportspeople we should be looking to. Personally I think we have far too many civil servants working for a pompous arrogant government (other governments are avaliable, all as bad as each other) who want us all to fund their club, and unlike sports teams who have to attract their funds from fans they just demand more money and we have to fund them with no choice apart from leaving the country to take up residence somewhere else.

Rant over

Mange Tout

Luv
Lyndyloo
& the Bears
-x-x-x-x-

Moose said...

Only just checked yesterday's blog.
Welcome Mr Caroline, or Mark or whatever!! My you have been lurking haven't you...scones (or scones) gives it away!!!

I shall check out your blog this evening...I get put on the naughty list every time I go to a Blog page at work, but if I lurk on my own comments page, it doesn't seem to report me to the powers that be...don't know why and I'm not asking.

Moose said...

Lyndyloo,
Thanks for your rant, I really enjoyed it...feel free to carry on.

You didn't mention the fat cat businessmen yet...especially the ones being paid to blog all day. Oops, "own goal"!!

Oh and by the way, Leicester don't really count!!! Not until they've been taken over by a foreign megalomaniac fat cat businessman anyway.

lyndyloo said...

I know what you mean about fat cats etc but I'm working to become such an overgrown pussy in the hope that one day I'll be able to run kids art workshops in poor countries one day.

And even some of our Leicester City boys (I understand they don't really count for anyone who's not an LCFC fan but for me they're "my boys")are getting paid thousands a week (yes even for that sort of rubbish!) and while I'm at it... get this... a really nice cricketer mate of mine who has been loyal to his club for years was given a meager £12k salary last season on the basis that he has his benefit year coming up so wouldn't move!!! That's just not CRICKET!!!

Luv
Lyndyloo
-x-x-x-

Anonymous said...

I'm utterly disgusted with the worth that is put upon so-called sport's personalities these days. Hubby and my pal Ann (of the clan MacLeod) were sitting talking about the transfers last night and I was appalled at some of the fees they were mentioning. It's totally immoral! And when you think about everything that is spent on hosting big sporting events ... hmmm .. not good!

I don't see a problem with good GPs being paid a salary that's reflective of the service they provide ... but the rest of the NHS should fal in line beside such salaries!

(BTW I know my spelling has gone adrift today - having a dyslexic day!)

Anonymous said...

Moose,

What a terrific blog today. I cannot bear to think about the amount of money invested in football. Don't get me wrong, I really love the game of football - when it's played by talented, skilled men, it can be breathtaking. However, no-one in the world is worth the money being paid to David Beckham and his mates. It's totally, totally obsence.

As for doctors and nurses - I admire them so much and am grateful to them personally. Having been hospital really ill, but recovering due to their skill and genius, I know just how dedicated these people are. I am embarrassed to say that I am a secretary and I earn more than a nurse. Can't be right, can it?

Moose, as for people's spirituality, what can you do? Everyone has to come to that in their own way, but believe me I listen to some of the people I work with and they have never explored anything to do with their spirituality. They think it's hilarious to laugh at other people's misfortunes, etc and I just cringe. But even if I tried to explain things to them, it would be like talking to a brick wall!

Sorry to ramble!

C xx

P.S. So glad to hear Max is home!

Anonymous said...

So ... you guys having problems with the CE Blog too! I keep getting the Error message .... then discover I've posted 2 or 3 times!

Hazel love - what happened with the friend's birthday?!

DWNB - Good point - great exercise!

Gaby - sending huge hugs your way. Sounds like you're doing a terrific job for the girls, and they will blossom and grow because of that. You can be a soppy c@w with us any time!

Matt - what do you plan to do?

Jo - well done! Keep up the good work! And I'm singing along!

T - rats! I missed the advert! Grrr!!!

Moose - I'm not sure if football has replaced church attendance, given the numbers that used to go to football in t' olden days! But what was different then was that the majority probably went to church the next day! I think, though, folk are searching for someone to idolise and look up to, so some may look to sport's people for that.

Hazel love - I'm crushed! Mika has been a breath of fresh air to me! *sobs hysterically*

So - what's everyone having for lunch? I've just had hummous on bread and a cuppa ... but not telling hubby that as he's taking me to our favourite cafe for lunch, then the girls have Little Fishes, the Mums&Tots club the church there runs.

Anonymous said...

Can I ask those who pray to please remember Mark. He's an ex-copper, used to work with hubby - his wife died not so long ago, and last night 1 of his sons was killed in a road accident.

Thanks.

I feel I have been blessed with a strong faith, which has seen me through so much, but I still sometimes wonder why some folk have to go through so much pain and heartache.

Anonymous said...

Me again,

My P.S. was for Mary of course!!!

C xx

Anonymous said...

You know it's odd. Myself and a colleague were having this conversation previously about the whole respect/values thing, and he is of the opinion that you can't have the same debate as we are having today, with someone who is younger (by this I take him to mean 19-23ish and not as a sweeping generalisation either) because they don't understand the whole respect/values concept...and that's such a crying shame!

ChrissieS - it's all gone foody next door, and if my post gets printed I've put some handy hints and tips on there for your future enjoyment in hosting a dinner party of your very own!

Moose, I have a rather nice recipe for a cheesy sweet potato soupy thingie if you'd like it for a veggie starter?

chow
love
hazel
x

Jo said...

Hazel Love - I want the recipe - cheesey & sweet potato, 2 of my favourite things!

Moose - good work avoiding the naughty list, am sure I'm number 1 on ours and internet SWAT team are about to break through window and cart me away!

SusanS - Toast and marmite here with banana and yoghurt (not all at once), trying to deny myself the craving for the mighty MM from Subway Hazel was chatting about the other day, it's only over the road and I'm sure it's not that bad for you!

:o) Jo

PS. Today I will mostly be singing Folk Music!

T said...

Sorry Moose you are a bit late, I had an early lunch today – just been to the shop and treated my self to a pork pie.

Saving the hot cross buns for later if anyone wants to join me – served full of melted butter,

Susan S – Big hug to you and your Husband’s friend Matt – my heart goes out to him.

T

Anonymous said...

Firstly SusanS, sorry about Mika, but he just gives me the pip, and secondly I didn't get to sleep until 02.30. The meal was lovely and we were having a really nice quiet time until some other friends turned up, and rather than just being an intimate little evening, it got a bit loud so I went to bed...but thank you for asking...and I feel like poo today instead of basking in the 'what a lovely evening' afterglow...and thirdly, consider it done babe.

Ham and egg roll, cheese and pickle roll, a small assorted (allegedly) mediterranean salad, two pop tarts, half a pizza napoletana, the rest of my boss's burger and chips, a clementine, a hot sausage roll, a ginsters, a bag of haribo and a crunchie.

Zuppa - recipe does about 6 as a starter or 3-4 as a main course served with loads of bread and more cheese...

You will need a
B I G S A U C E P A N and a 'chuck it in' attitude...!

About 2&1/2lbs relatively thinly sliced (4-5mm?) sweet potatoes, a couple of chopped onions, 4-5 cloves chopped garlic, the leaves off about 5 strands of rosemary (although the jar stuff is ok if you soak it in some warm water before cooking), about 2 big pints of veg or chicken stock, a lump of mild(ish) blue cheese or white stilton, olive oil.

Heat oil in pan, add onion and half of rosemary, cook slowly till onions are see-through, **add the garlic, cook through, add the sweet potatoes for a further couple of minutes, all the while stirring gently then add all the stock. Bring whole lot to boil and simmer for approx 20-30mins. You then need to liquidise ideally, but if you simmer it long enough the sweet pots go all mushy anyway, so you can actually just hand whisk it slowly.
Let it cool slightly then tip into serving bowls and crumble the cheese over the top. As long as it's not too hot the cheese should just be about melty...sprinkle the rest of the rosemary and a wee drizzlette of olive oil for the final touch.
I don't generally use salt when I cook, so I'd wait to taste it with the cheese first else it might be too salty. **If you can get hold of the ground chilli and mixed pepper mixture, this goes very nicely indeed...add it around the same time as the garlic rather than at the end though!

Enjoy!

Lyndyloo, I lost my print out of the cabbage thing, and I can't find it to print again...please help!

Oh yeah, and something about football and nurses...or was it vicars and tarts...oh you are awful...

love
hazel
x

Dogwithnobrain said...

Give us the Cheesey Sweet Potato. My favourite too.

Today, Jo, I shall mostly be singing Amazing Grace. I likey!

Hazel Love O M G - Mica, how mind draining is he. I want to smack his head off that flipping piano. squeaky pain in the arse.

Oh oh oh - I meant to say also, about the football / too highly paid / bigotry thing..... I wrote to Sky and told them about the abuse my son was getting at school and they organised for him to meet Alan Shearer at a match he was going to.. what a man....he was worth every penny he gets paid for how brilliant he made my son feel. That was 5 years ago, and the shirt is still on the wall, and we still worship at the Shrine of St James.

DWNB

Dogwithnobrain said...

Are we getting any more book? please.........

Jo said...

Yo! Is it home time yet?

D'oh - not allowed blue cheese (are other cheeses available that are pregnancy certified???? - will cheddar do??

:o) Jo

Moose said...

There's another rule of writing which I think goes something like...

Always leave them gagging for more.

Or was that always leave them gagging?

Are you sure you are ready for chapter 3? I think I can promise only one thing...it won't answer any of the questions you might have from chapters 1 and 2. Not one. Not a single jot nor tittle....
Still want it?
Actaully there is one little subtle one if you spot it...but apart from that...
Well, and the Spanish Inquisition!

Blackburn? Scotland? England Fan? Newcastle? Does not compute...does not compute.

I have a colleague who was born in Essex, lived a mile away from me until he was 3 (although I didn't know him at the time), is Scottish, occasionally admits to being a Livingstone supporter, but is really a Toon? Who knows??? The power of football, huh? Nick Hornby - now there's a man after my own heart, despite being an addict and a Gooner.

I think I have decided that, if nothing else, my mission in life will be to make people think. Think at all, think differently, think about subjects they have not thought about before. All of the above.

Have just realised that CE is rather good at that...

Anonymous said...

There have been so many interesting topics today I may have too much to say - I apologise in advance!

I like to think I’m a fairly calm and well-adjusted person, but two things that get me going are when things are unjust, and lack of respect. When and why did footballers suddenly get paid so much, it hasn’t always been that way? When did the majority of people stop showing respect for others, and why do we tolerate it? My nephew, who is 11 is a lovely kid, so naturally caring and thoughtful, and this does not prevent him being a typical boy. We probably all know children like that (I expect all yours are), so there is hope, but some of their role model leave me in despair.

Like T I am looking forward to the six-nations starting this week, having been brought up on rugby since I was tiny by the Welsh side of my family (Dad and Grandad). In those days (late 60’s to 70’s) they were a mighty team! Of course I do support England as well, there is just something inexplicable in my blood that cannot be denied when the red shirts are out. I believe all the jokes about hookers have been done previously, so I’ll not say any more about that.

My other sporting passions are cricket and F1. I used to play cricket for two men’s teams years ago (only once did someone bowl underarm to me!), and go to Silverstone every year for the British GP (tis only just up the road for me).

As for all the underpaid workers in this country, I would add firefighters to the list, having worked with many in the past. Some do get paid a reasonable salary, but I wouldn’t do what they do, not for any money. I’ve had a go in training situations, and it was fantastically exhilarating, but in the real world they deal with more than most could handle.

This brings me onto Susan and her friend Mark. I have a strong faith too, but I don’t understand either why some people seem singled out for so much pain. My thoughts are with him.

Gaby, Susan has already said what I was thinking about the way you are bringing up your girls - I have huge admiration for you!

Moose, I have been known to make a mean paella, and sangria to go with it. As we all seem to be foodies on this blog, wouldn’t it be great to commandeer a restaurant somewhere and cook our specials for each other! (Hazel, I would choose the cheesy sweet potato over the defrosted lettuce if that’s alright!)

I can dream!

Sarah

lyndyloo said...

Announcement-

Have just had a box of Hokkien Noodles with Green Curry Sauce from Aldi (other cheapy supermarkets are available) which cooks in the micro for 3 minutes.... DELISH!!!!

hazel love if you send me your email I'll send you my cabbagey recipe and a free copy of Jamie Olivers book if you don't have it.

Luv
Lyndyloo
-x-x-x-x-
thecylindrical1@hotmail.com

Moose said...

Sarah,
Now you've got me started on an idea...
A couple of years ago I was invited to a "Food Appreciation Day". A group of about 40 of us took over a restaurant in London. We did taste and smell tests and various little cooking tasks, with lectures about taste and food and oh it was wonderful.
In the evening, we were divided into 3 teams, one for each course, and we commandeered the kitchen, cooking our fantastic 3 course meal for 200 people (all of our direct reports). The waiters were the top brass!
Great day and added me wanting to be a chef to my ever-growing list of dreams/ambitions.

So, for an OAMC, we'll get the same restaurant, those of us that want to will cook, and all the other bloggers can just come and eat.

Can I be Gordon, and shout and swear at everyone? Please?

Dogwithnobrain said...

Jo
You know what... they always say everything is bad don't they. 10 years ago all the things which they say are bad now, weren't bad, and my kids 12, 15 don't have three heads each or 18 fingers (other abnormalities are availble). Everyone is just out to protect themselves from all sorts of litigation.
Enjoy your Pregnancy... Eat what your body tells you. My bumps quite liked the odd glass of wine!

DWNB

Moose said...

Oh, and I forgot to say, although I've said it before...

I do feel for Susan's hubby's friend...

I am thankful that so many of us, including me, are SPARED such pain. I find it a different perspective that makes more sense to me. It certainly helps me to have a more humble, helpful, less judgmental and more caring attitude to those going through times of trouble.
There but for the grace of God...

Dogwithnobrain said...

and yes,

Give me ALL THE chapters....


This is worse than a two week jackanory........ having to wait over the weekend.

Dogwithnobrain said...

please

Moose said...

Lyndyloo and Hazel,
Remember I can do introductions for a pint!! Let me know if you require my services...

Moose said...

DWNB
In case you are wondering...it was me!!! I was just practising and enjoying the feeling of power that deleting comments gives me. Imagine a self-satisfied smug smile...

lyndyloo said...

Moose

If that's the case can you please introduce me to a tall dark handsome gentle kind caring man who loves labradors, skiing, sport and wants a wonderful woman to share his life with?
Pint coming right up!!!

Moose said...

Lyndyloo,
Only one person I know fits the description, and unfortunately, I'm married!!!

lyndyloo said...

Ooooh, and there was me getting my hopes up! Maybe I should just settle for a rich footballer!

Ahhhh, what goes around comes around.....

jollygit said...

Helloo - can I join you? I can't post next door and you seem to be having far more fun over here!

Susan S - my heart goes out to your hubby's friend. I will send up a prayer for him.

I went to the Sacre-Coeur in Paris at the weekend and whilst walking round, minding my own business, a woman literally ran and threw herself on the floor outside the shrine to the Virgin Mary. She was sobbing hysterically and was literally spreadeagled outside the shrine. It took two nuns to calm her down and move her out of the way. I've never seen anything like it in my life - I'm still trying to work out why it happened!

I remember listening to Bobby Charlton talking about football and he had, and still has, a passion for the game which was infectious, even for a girl ! My belief is that in 'those' days, footballers played for the love of the game, since their wages were pretty average. I wonder if any of today's players would play for an 'average' weekly wage and for the love of the sport - hmmm, don't think so.

Moose - am I allowed to read your book so far? If so, how do I do this?

jillygoat

Anonymous said...

Jo, white stilton isn't blue at all, because they don't put the stuff in it to make it so (no.1), so I hope that will be ok for you. Check in your Dr Spock...and much as I hate to admit it, DWNB is perfectly right, she has two stunning children! The buns are cute too...

Sarah, I'm confused. Defrosted lettuce??????

Moose, my love, my one, my own...just so you know...I would rather dislocate my neck so that I can lick my elbow than cook for 200 people. (other bodily mutilations are available)

...and you can only be Gordon if I can be Frank.

One thing just struck me. Everyone has really crappy stuff happen to them. I lost two dads and a cat during one week in 2001. Two years ago a very good friend died on his way back from my boy's birthday party. Last week, again on the boy's birthday, we lost Barney. In the meantime we've had a ton of other rubbish stuff happen, but because of love, support and at times sheer bloody mindedness we've come through it. It isn't until something happens you realise that there is so much love and help out there. It's effing hard at times to put a smile on your face, and little consolation to know that there are those worse off than you. Mark being one of those poor people. Susan, I'm sure he knows that there is someone there, and we'll all be here too. It doesn't matter if you know or you don't know someone, we should all try to spread peace and love because we can!

Now I'm all teary and sending a tiny bit of reiki out. If you all feel warm inside in about 10mins, that's lovely, or you may just need some more milk in your tea...

J'aimez vous
love
hazel
x

ps to all of those who believed that was what I really had for my lunch...dear dear...

Moose said...

Jillygoat,
Send me an e-mail to...
muffinthemoose@yahoo.co.uk
And I'll send you the first few chapters, like what the others have already got...

Anonymous said...

Couple of things!!

Sorry about the mis-spelling of "obscene" earlier - think I was a little carried away!

Susan S - first, I am with you re: Mika. I love that record and it cheers me up. Second, I will really pray for your husband's ex-colleague. I have no idea why some people are asked to deal with so much in life. There's no rhyme or reason.

Hazel Love - I love your comment over on Chris's blog - I tried to answer, but it just zapped me completely. Don't know what the problem is over there - as we all know comments take for ever to get posted. I will email Chris to let him know, but will anyone deal with it?!

Moose, thanks for creating this blog, it is keeping me sane!

C xx

jollygit said...

Thanks Moose - ooh, I'm getting all excited now!!!

Hazel Love - so sorry your birthday didn't go according to plan. You've certainly had a tough few years haven't you?

Apart from my grandparents, who died when I was so young that I don't remember them at all, my parents and their brothers & sisters are all still very much alive and I feel so lucky to have known them all of my 45 years.

However, without sounding pessimistic, but more realistic, I realise that when one dies that will probably be the start of an almost domino effect. My mum's the youngest at 75 and the others are 80 or above. I'm absolutely dreading it and have no experience to compare it with. Sure, divorce is painful but it's not the same is it? How do you ever cope?

Sorry if I've gone all maudlin, but you've given me food for thought.

jillygoat x

Moose said...

ChrissieS,
Each to their own!
It keeps you sane.
It keeps me insane.
As long as we're both happy with that!!!

lyndyloo said...

And another thing!!!!

have you seen the price of a renewal passport these days? OMG!

Luv
Lyndyloo
-x-x-x-

Anonymous said...

ChrissieS - I shouldn't think anyone will take the blindest bit of notice...unless you have a supa-dupa private email address for CE, but of course it's worth a go!

It doesn't matter how you spell obscene. It's why you have to use the word at all that is interesting...

I've just had this emailed to me. Feel free to pass on or not. motorist/mobile and the CV ones are my own personal faves...

DON'T waste money on expensive ipods. Simply think of your favourite tune and hum it. If you want to "switch tracks", simply think of another song you like and hum that instead.

CINEMA GOERS. Please have consideration for pirate DVD viewers by having a p*ss before the film starts.

RAPPERS. Avoid having to say 'know what I'm sayin' all the time by actually speaking clearly in the first place.

DON'T waste money on expensive paper shredders to avoid having your identity stolen. Simply place a few dog turds in the bin bags along with your old bank statements.

WORRIED that your teeth will be stained after a heavy night drinking red wine? Simply drink a bottle of white wine before going to bed to remove the stains.

SOLDIERS. Invest in a digital camera to avoid all that court martial tomfoolery after a trip to Trueprint.

MURDERERS. Need to dispose of a body? Simply parcel it up and post it to yourself via DHL. You will never see it again.

BURGLARS. When fleeing from the police, run with your right arm sticking out at 90?, wrapped in a baby mattress in case they set one of their dogs on you.

EMPLOYERS. Avoid hiring unlucky people by immediately tossing half the CVs into the bin.

MEN. When listening to your favourite CD, simply turn up the sound to the volume you desire; then turn it down three notches. This will save your wife from having to do it.

GAMBLERS. For a new gambling opportunity, try sending £50 to yourself by Royal Mail.

BANGING two pistachio nutshells together gives the impression that a very small horse is approaching.

BLIND PEOPLE. Give yourself at least a chance of seeing something by not wearing heavy dark glasses all the time.

ALCOHOL makes an ideal substitute for happiness.

DRIVERS. If a car breaks down or stalls in front of you, beep your horn and wave your arms frantically. This should help the car start and send them on their way.

PREVENT burglars stealing everything in the house by simply moving everything in the house into your bedroom when you go to bed. In the morning, simply move it all back again.

CAR THIEVES Don't be discouraged when nothing is on view. All the valuables may be hidden in the glove box or under a seat.

DEPRESSED PEOPLE. Instead of attempting suicide as a 'cry for help', simply shout 'Help!' thus saving money on paracetamol, etc.

MOTORISTS Avoid getting prosecuted for using your phone whilst driving. Simply pop your mobile inside a large shell and the police will think you are listening to the sea.

SHOES last twice as long if only worn every other day.

SINGLE MEN. Convince people that you have a girlfriend by standing outside Etam with several bags of shopping, looking at your watch and occasionally glancing inside.

BOIL an egg to perfection without costly egg timers by popping the egg into boiling water and driving away from your home at exactly 60mph. After 3 miles, phone your beloved and tell them to take the egg out of the pan.

ALCOHOLICS. Don't worry where the next drink is coming from. Go to the pub, where a large selection is available at retail prices.

McDONALD'S. Make your brown carrier bags green in colour so they blend in with the countryside after they've been thrown out of car windows.

Oh yeah, Some more about footballers and doctors. I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours and have you got a George Best for a Peter Osgood? I only need a George Best and I've finished all the stickers in my 1971 copy of 'SHOOT!' annual.

I will now do my famous impression of the great Russian Sleeping Master...Ima Nodinov

exeunt players
love
hazel
x

Anonymous said...

Hazel

Sorry, I meant salad, not lettuce! I seem to remember your description a few days ago of your lunch defrosting. I would not intentionally daze or confazel anyone. I am now standing in the corner until I am forgiven.

Sarah (suitably mortified)

Anonymous said...

Thanks jillygoat, big love!

...and lyndyloo, I have emailed you so thanks for that. Re the price of the passport renewal, if you looked like Myra Hindley in your first one, you will pay any price to get a new one!

...and Moose, chapter three? Is this when they finally reach kirrin island?

I REALLY HAVE TO GO NOW I LOVE YOU ALL NIGHT NIGHT SEE YOU TOMORROW I SPEC DON'T LET THE BEDBUGS BITE TUCK IN NOW THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS DRAGONS DON'T BE SILLY BUT MUMMY...DADDY THINKS NANNY IS A DRAGON...

love
hazel
x

Anonymous said...

Jillygoat,

I would say to you that nothing can prepare you for losing the ones you love. It is terrible, but you do cope with it. If you have read previous comments over on CE's blog, people have said in the past that it helps that you make sure nothing remains unsaid with your loved ones. Tell them you love them, tell them what they mean to you and then at least when "the day" comes you will have said what you wanted to say.

It's not always easy. I remember making a decision to tell my mum and dad how much I loved them (they died 11 years ago, so I told them this is at least 20 years ago). I just knew it was time to say the words -you know they love you, they know you love them, but unless you actually say it, it remains unsaid!! - You know what I mean!

Hopefully you have lots of time left with these people who mean so much - even when they drive you mad, make the most of it!!

C xx

Anonymous said...

I am probably a bit late with my response for this blog. I love football, went to my first Spurs game when I was knee high to a grasshopper and have been hooked ever since. Since having the children (and now living in the Northwest) I have only managed to go to one game and can't afford Sky Sports so my viewing is now limited to whatever paltry amount of time is allocated to us on MOTD and the UEFA and domestic cup games that are sometimes aired on terrestrial TV.

It would seem to me that, not just football, but generally being in a celebrity environment can create an obscene amount of money - I was amazed to hear that Jade Goody was worth so much money (£8million) - for what? - I caught a little bit of CBB when it all kicked off and from what I could see she behaved no differently from the first time in the normal BB. But 'we', the public, have made a celebrity of her nonetheless.

Back to football, why shouldn't footballers go for big bucks if they are being offered it and have the talent to get paid it. Society is not fair and will probably never be fair. That is the nature of the world we live in. If you like football and can afford it then why not go to each and every game? There is no reason to feel guilty about it. If you had the talent to either make it as a professional footballer or become a paramedic/nurse/doctor - that is when you would need to twang your conscience about which path to take. Not a decision I would wish to make!

Hope my ramblings made sense and have not offended anyone as that was not my intention.

Happy Thirsty Thursday guys!

Amanda (AS66)x

jollygit said...

Chrissie S - you're absolutely right. I think I've said over on CE's blog that whenever I see my mum and dad, or speak to them on the phone, I always end the conversation with the words "i love you". It's not an automatic response by any means - they are very easy people to love and I know that I'm very, very fortunate.

When the time comes I know I won't have anything to reproach myself for but, as you say, I'll continue to make the most of them while they're still here. On that note, I've just arranged to meet my mum in London on Saturday - we both travel by train as she's in Brighton and I'm in Kent - and it's easier that way. I'll give her a bigger hug than usual when I see her.

Thanks Chrissie

jillygoat xx

Mark Timmins said...

Dear all
with regards to male footballers having a penchant for wearing expensive womens underwear (or something like that)
I read a very interesting article in the Observer at the weekend which was debating the very issues of footballers pay and the equivalent bonuses in the city(oh my god here we go back to the 80s... yuppies and obscene amounts of city bonuses)and the writer wondered wether the footballers should be paid by results, as the city boys and girls are.
Would this make football more intesting and risk taking?
or should we all start supporting our local small teams who don`t get paid obscene amounts of money and build a thriving grassroots, anyone can be involved game...
any way back to the scones! would we like Heston,Jamie or Gordon to do the half time catering?
Mr Caroline

Moose said...

Evening all,
Mr Caroline (ha that's going to stick now!!!)
I think Heston would make a bit of a meal of trying to do the perfect prawn sandwich.
Gordon would get sent off for foul and abusive language.
And Jamie's a t&$$@r.

What about CE for the catering? And James Martin. They'd make a great double act...NOT!

Have to agree on the local teams...or actually DWNBs point about PLAYING the game rather than watching it. (or running the line of course).
I have always been more of a player than a watcher...

Had a good swim this evening and pleasantly surprised myself with how many continuous lengths of front crawl I did. Not a record but I was impressed with myself. Probably too easily done.

T said...

I don’t normally blog in the evening as I try and leave my laptop safely tucked away, unfortunately not this evening as I was given a presentation to put together at 5.30 this evening for a meeting first think – timing and preparations – love it!

Mr C – I see you mention Heston. He is amazing. We had the chance to eat at the Fat Duck a year ago and it was the best meal I have ever had. We did his 10 course taster menu and had all the weird and wonderful food including snail porridge, egg and bacon ice cream, liquorice salmon, coco pigeon and the list goes on, but all was amazing. My only dislike was the ice cream, but it was worth every penny.

Anyway, I must get back to the work, can’t let the blog distract me!

T

Anonymous said...

OMG he's taken over!
apologies..he's not with me..honestly

You lot had a good talk today..well motivated Moose!

Hazel..are you opening up tomorrow for the bring and buy .or has that gastly woman with the wonky teeth and bad breath got the keys? And another thing, Hazel..I was looking for tables on e bay..(I've got lots of bottles) - strangely enough there were 10 trestle tables up for grabs..from Sweden the postage was way too expensive..any connection with that pyromanic Chef?

Love caroline X

Anonymous said...

ladies and gentlemen,

Please excuse this self-indulgent post.

I am a regular but will post as anonymous....just in case.

It's been a strange sort of a week, I don't really know why - probably the full moon.

You know that feeling when you try so hard and yet you still fall.

In the grand scheme of things, it ain't a big problem - and , being a live-for-the-day type person I am the first to say that....but I am fed up with my ex's other half and the impact she is having on my kids. I have said stuff before to him, but I have to tread that very difficult line of not betraying my kids' confidence. The kids would be devastated if they knew that I acted on little snippets that I picked up on. I have never betrayed their confidence but (despite my inability to have a way with words on these pages) have managed to 'get a message through to him' without him knowing they have said anything to me.

They have hardly seen him recently( for a variety of reasons, none of them to do with me (ie I let him do as he pleases - he has free access)) but when eldest just spoke about seeing him on a forthcoming visit, she expressed concern about what would happen. she is a very loving,loyal person and it breaks my heart (once again) to feel the emotion that my kids are feeling.
I know not where I am going with this , but as my house is small (in comparison to footballers' houses anyway ; )), I cannot phone a friend for fear of being overheard as the kids are here obviously.

It probably doesnt sound much to be upset by, I guess it is just ANOTHER thing. Also, when I was younger, I had a torrid time at the receiving end of MY step-mother's vitreol. I know that I mustn't taint what is happening for my kids with what happened to me....and I am not. I am a fair and a non-judgemental person - who gives far too many the benefit of the doubt.

Again, so sorry to burden. No need to reply. I just needed to tell someone.

Life is so hard sometimes, as we all know. I know that this, in isolaton is nothing. It's just , like I said, on top of the rest.

laters

G
xx

loving your work

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Anonymous said...

It's the end of the blog as we know it.

(And I feel fine)

Is it me, or is Mr E's blog dying a painful but very public death before our eyes?

Or, have we shifted up a gear and simply tired of the old format in favour of Moose's superior product?

I'm struggling to muster the enthusiasm to bother 'over there' now. Maybe I was right all along with my theory.....

Anyway, I'm glad that the main protagonists (in my view) have migrated over here. This feels more like home.

...which is all the more reason to breath new life into the OAMC project. After all, we don't have our big brother frowning over us now!

G. Don't despair. I'm not in a position to offer advice about family relationships, as I've mentioned before my own barely spoke while I grew up and we don't have kids of our own, but I do specialize in my own brand of optimism. Cling really tight to your dreams and the will come true. No, really.

I'm slap in the middle of a very busy time at work, so blogging time is at a premium, but I do pop my head round the door now and then, so keep it up everyone. I work in an office on my own, so you are the people that keep me company.

The blog is dead. Long live the blog.

Sleep well my friends.

Peace and love

MfR

Mark Timmins said...

Hmm the concept of bacon and egg icecream is probably a touch too far although Mrs Caroline will support me, that we both drank a bottle of wine, that had a description on the menu that it tasted of petrol and I have to say it did..( absoloutely nothing to do with antifreeze and excessive alcohol content)
so thank you for your kind words
and I will be off to read my Artists newsletter before mrs Caroline finishes watching ER
Regards the scone loving
Mr Caroline

Dogwithnobrain said...

G,
You are doing your best by your kids. If they don't want to go and don't want to say direct to your ex, then you will have to take the bull by the horns and tell him.

I had a similar situation but reversed. I'm the new wife and in the start we were "banned" from seeing my husband's child because of the "detrimental effect I might have had on her". 14 years later she came back into our lives, and I welcomed her with open arms. She is my husband's daughter how can I not love her? She broke his heart, but I wanted him to have her back. However after the initial "lovely being in this family", I could see she was demanding more of her fathers time than he was prepared to give and when he told her that, instead of taking it out on him, she turned on me, and I got every thing her mother had ever said about me. I was hurt, but prepared for it. What she wasn't prepared for was her father standing by me, and defending me against her tirade. He told her until she apologised there would be no further contact. 2 years later we got a "happy new year", but that was 2 years ago, and I think my heart is broken over it most.

All you ever want is for the kids to be happy and there is no rules or guidelines.... we've all got to act on our gut instinc - and you, like me know, that if it came to it, we'd fight to the death for our kids.

Do what you know is right for them - we're all here for your to let steam off when faced by pressure from both sides.

DWNB

Dogwithnobrain said...

PS - I got a hair cut and colour tonight. I'm looking totally splendid.

DWNB

NIGHTNIGHT

Moose said...

G,
Sorry to hear you are having a hard time at the moment.
Step relationships are always hard. I don't think there's a way to make them easy.
But it sounds like your kids are smart and of the age that they are capable of making up their own minds about what is going on.
You don't have to make up their mind for them.

Let me tell you a story...
A friend of ours (German lady) married a British guy and they had 2 kids. When they were 4 and 2, he disappeared with them. They used to send paintings and letters sometimes, always bundled together and posted from central London. It was clear the kids were not being told the truth about what was going on. SEVEN years later, he turned himself into the police. Custody hearing ensued. Judge found in favour of our friend, and she, one of the wisest women I know, said she wanted the kids to stay with the father.
Shock horror!
Her argument was that they had a life, friends, didn't speak German (she had divorced him for abandonment and remarried in the meantime to a really nice guy - another friend of ours) and that it would on balance be best for them. She has determined not to tell them her side of the story until they ask. She figures that they will ask when they are old enough, and that any persuasion she tries will be counter-productive. The kids are now about 15 and 13. They haven't really asked yet, but it must be coming fairly soon. And when they do ask, she is not going to tell them herself...she is going to give them all of the court documents so that they know that it is the balanced story, the truth (as close as you can get).
Patience is so tricky, especially for live-for-today types like you. But I think it's all you need. Protect them and keep them away fromobvious harm. But apart from that, you have to let them learn for themselves and make their own decisions...

Sorry for going on...
Whatever you do, good luck with it all and may tomorrow be a better day!

Matt - I'm not so sure. The nature has changed but I was impressed with the early post from CE today. Still lots of comments, in fact I think there are MORE people who post, just less multiple postings from us lot. If you go back to the days of 150+ posts a day, us lot over here probably did half of them between us...

Oh well, time to close off this thread and open a new one ready for you insomniacs tonight, and normal people tomorrow!!!

Anonymous said...

HI

Jillygoat - thankyou so much for wishing me a Happy Birthday on the 'other side' it was so much appreciated.
I have just skipped through this blog and read something from you, and we have some things in common. I have moved 300 miles away from my 76 year old mum, I phone her everyday but it doesn't seem enough, I'm arranging to visit her for 3 days in 3 weeks time (juggling mine, partners work and school) but it's so important to give her and me something to look forward to. I hope to move back closer to her soon! Family to me should be all that matters, but hell why does livelihood and work get in the way?
Thanks again for being such a sweetie!
JoJo x

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for taking the time, thank you. Such wise words. Such kind friends.

Gaby

xx

good nitol

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for taking the time, thank you. Such wise words. Such kind friends.

Gaby

xx

good nitol

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for taking the time, thank you. Such wise words. Such kind friends.

Gaby

xx

good nitol

Anonymous said...

ooh, three times - I want a trio and I want one now!!!!

Sorry if that makes no sense - maybe I dreamt it. Long ago, once upon a blog

mange tout